If There Were No BMWs
- Thread starter poboyis
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Good point about Mercedes not offering manuals. I'm a bit disappointed by that, too. But I know you can E-classes w/manuals in Europe, but Mercedes figures they probably wouldn't sell to well in the States. If you're hardcore enough, I guess you could arrange to import one, but that'd be a pain-in-the-ass for sure.
With the AMGs, the arguements I've read for the no-manual are similar to what BMW says about the new M5--a computer controlled tranny is better equipped to handle all that power than a human could. That's my take.
Yeah, I agree that general, non-AMG models do not give as spirited a driving feel. But in Mercedes's defense, even regular models equipped with Sport packages come close. I drove a co-worker's 04 S500 w/Sport and that thing was awesome; plenty fast, and the suspension was just the right balance between sport and comfort, but steering feel was a tad mushy, but it is a big, luxo-car after all. Now I didn't really drive the car that hard (I was too scared not to do anything that would cost me)--pushed it from a stoplight through about 60--but I got a good taste, and for general "gonna-take-out-this-Maxima" driving style and trips to the opera, I think it's perfect.
As far as COMAND, to be honest, I don't really have any experience with it. The few times I've driven Merc's (the S500, my neighbor's ML500, and my barber's ML350--yup, my barber), I didn't mess with it at all. My post was just drawing off, like you said, journalists reports/reviews.![[cheers]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_cheers.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
With the AMGs, the arguements I've read for the no-manual are similar to what BMW says about the new M5--a computer controlled tranny is better equipped to handle all that power than a human could. That's my take.
Yeah, I agree that general, non-AMG models do not give as spirited a driving feel. But in Mercedes's defense, even regular models equipped with Sport packages come close. I drove a co-worker's 04 S500 w/Sport and that thing was awesome; plenty fast, and the suspension was just the right balance between sport and comfort, but steering feel was a tad mushy, but it is a big, luxo-car after all. Now I didn't really drive the car that hard (I was too scared not to do anything that would cost me)--pushed it from a stoplight through about 60--but I got a good taste, and for general "gonna-take-out-this-Maxima" driving style and trips to the opera, I think it's perfect.
As far as COMAND, to be honest, I don't really have any experience with it. The few times I've driven Merc's (the S500, my neighbor's ML500, and my barber's ML350--yup, my barber), I didn't mess with it at all. My post was just drawing off, like you said, journalists reports/reviews.
If BMWs did not exist, I would most likely end up getting a Audi S4. I always liked the look of audis, they always looked ahead of the other manufacturers. Also I would consider VW (same company) just because I used to have a Golf GTI 16v, and the new Golf R32 is just awesome. Another car company would be Nissan. ( that includes infinity ) I love the 300ZX that they used to have, G35 is great, and I really like the FX35. And last company I would consider would be Mercedes, E-class most likely, or ML-Class.
Wallie, I am not disappointed or weirded out by the fact that the AMG cars have automatic transmissions. I think it is actually good because Mercedes has perfected the automatic (no longer a 0-60 difference with manual and automatic for MB) and it is a great transmission. I guess I would really like to see a manual transmission in more entertaining cars than the regular C Class. Having the 6-speed manual available in the new SLK350 is an amazing new step for Mercedes.
As for the Benz's you've driven, that's kind of ironic. My parents each have an 04 S500 4Matic (both of them non-sport package) and I have an 02 ML500 so I can easily relate to the Mercedes vehicles you've driven. The S500's are great vehicles but I feel like the car is very calm about its power, which is typical Mercedes style. The transmission is always very quick to keep rpm's down, but when you active the Sport Mode 2 (mode 2 being the most aggressive, mode 1 being less aggressive, and default of it "off" being the most comfortable ride), the big heavy beasts are surprisingly nimble handlers through the turns despite a bit of squishiness due to the standard gay 17" all-season tires.
As for the ML500, I think it is an underrated SUV. Granted the styling isn't for everyone, I think it has good strong points, even compared to the new SUV's available on the market. The vehicle costs $50K very nicely-equipped and it is a mid-sized SUV that does not compromise. It seats 5 adults comfortably, has ample trunk space, standard 4WD with Low-Range, and all the other features you expect from a luxury SUV nowadays. And to top it off, it has surprisingly good on-road dynamics. Acceleration is great and the 5.0L V8 sounds great all the way to redline (very loud and macho sound coming from the engine that the S500's just muffle down), and the suspension is great. It rides like a typical "truck" over the bumps, but it can take turns surprisingly fast with very predictable handling, and the vehicle overall is very nimble.
I think Mercedes really knows what they're doing with their cars and they seem to be only getting better and better.
Grunt, I agree with you. If there was no BMW, the Audi S4 is the way to go. I always thought the B5 S4 was an amazing car and this new B6 S4 is an even more amazing car.
As for the Benz's you've driven, that's kind of ironic. My parents each have an 04 S500 4Matic (both of them non-sport package) and I have an 02 ML500 so I can easily relate to the Mercedes vehicles you've driven. The S500's are great vehicles but I feel like the car is very calm about its power, which is typical Mercedes style. The transmission is always very quick to keep rpm's down, but when you active the Sport Mode 2 (mode 2 being the most aggressive, mode 1 being less aggressive, and default of it "off" being the most comfortable ride), the big heavy beasts are surprisingly nimble handlers through the turns despite a bit of squishiness due to the standard gay 17" all-season tires.
As for the ML500, I think it is an underrated SUV. Granted the styling isn't for everyone, I think it has good strong points, even compared to the new SUV's available on the market. The vehicle costs $50K very nicely-equipped and it is a mid-sized SUV that does not compromise. It seats 5 adults comfortably, has ample trunk space, standard 4WD with Low-Range, and all the other features you expect from a luxury SUV nowadays. And to top it off, it has surprisingly good on-road dynamics. Acceleration is great and the 5.0L V8 sounds great all the way to redline (very loud and macho sound coming from the engine that the S500's just muffle down), and the suspension is great. It rides like a typical "truck" over the bumps, but it can take turns surprisingly fast with very predictable handling, and the vehicle overall is very nimble.
I think Mercedes really knows what they're doing with their cars and they seem to be only getting better and better.
Grunt, I agree with you. If there was no BMW, the Audi S4 is the way to go. I always thought the B5 S4 was an amazing car and this new B6 S4 is an even more amazing car.
Porsche (cross flow cooling system), Saab (3-point seatbelts), Mercedes (distance control), Ferrari (paddle-shift gearbox), Mac Laren (ground shear centre sub-frame suspension construction).... The list goes on.
Sure, BMW have set very high standards and benchmarks over a very long period of time but so have many other car companies. BMW might be comparitively more advanced in the introduction of new technology but to know for sure would take an absolute shitload of research.
Sure, BMW have set very high standards and benchmarks over a very long period of time but so have many other car companies. BMW might be comparitively more advanced in the introduction of new technology but to know for sure would take an absolute shitload of research.
By 3 point do you mean the seatbelts we use now-a-days? Becuase searcing google (and from previous knowledge)... Volvo designed and patented (and then deployed) the first 3 point seatbelts. Porsche had a cross flow cooling system becuase they are air cooled unlike almost any other car, and the McLaren? Think there's a reason they used BMW's Engines? BMW's all about the engine technology. That's where we would be behind, and bmw has been KNOWN for its engines. I'm not sure there are many other companies who have gotten 1400 hp out of a single Turbo 4-cylinder.
And what do you mean other companies have set the benchmark? Find some magazines from 2001 and older (Pre new 5,6, and 7) and see what they say. "...yet again bmw sets the benchmark....."
And what do you mean other companies have set the benchmark? Find some magazines from 2001 and older (Pre new 5,6, and 7) and see what they say. "...yet again bmw sets the benchmark....."
I'm with Chesty on this one....again (surprise!). You have to be careful when you make these kind of statements. All the big three Germans (M-B, BMW, Audi) have been developing and coming up with remarkable innovations (or "setting benchmarks" as you say) over the past decades. It's difficult to say who came up with what first. Even they're kind of vague about it.
Look no further than the brochures for each of these manufacturers. Very rarely do they say they come out and say we flat-out invented x, y, or z. The rhetoric they use most often falls along the lines of "we pioneered this", or "we were among the first to make/introduce that", "one of the original developers of this" etc. (Pick up a 2004 Mercedes catalog if you don't believe me.) I don't think either BMW or M-B has claimed to have "invented" ABS, but each makes its own claim on traction control. I think they both came about using them around the same time. And they both kind of get around this by saying, well, Mercedes invented ESP, while BMW invented ASC/DSC. Get it? Meanwhile, pretty much everybody gives Audi credit for developing, or pioneering (see how this works, maybe patenting) Quattro.
Given this, I don't think its fair to say BMW set the benchmark--seems like all three (Audi wasn't really a competitor until the mid-to-late 90s, to be fair) compete too closely to say one leads the pack way ahead of the others.
I said bmw was the first ever to use an engine management comptuer - its true, they were the first.
I said volvo was the first to use the seatbelts that we use now-a-days - becuase they were.
MB did invent ABS for forumla 1 (which is how nearly all modern electronic automotovie technologies - engine management systems, abs, traction control, etc. came from). They weren't necessarily the FIRST to use these on road-going vehicles but they did invent it. MB also invented the idea of traction control. I dont care what other companies name it - the idea of it came from mercedes.
Think of variable valve timing (vtec, vanos, VVTI, etc. whatever manufacturer you want to think of). It was invented in the 60's by James Rhoads (and a few others that I don't know of). BUt it wasn't deployed until recently. Just becuase honda was the first to market it, doesnt mean they invented it. I'm not ignorant, you just need to stop looking deeper into my posts than what was ment to be.
I said volvo was the first to use the seatbelts that we use now-a-days - becuase they were.
MB did invent ABS for forumla 1 (which is how nearly all modern electronic automotovie technologies - engine management systems, abs, traction control, etc. came from). They weren't necessarily the FIRST to use these on road-going vehicles but they did invent it. MB also invented the idea of traction control. I dont care what other companies name it - the idea of it came from mercedes.
Think of variable valve timing (vtec, vanos, VVTI, etc. whatever manufacturer you want to think of). It was invented in the 60's by James Rhoads (and a few others that I don't know of). BUt it wasn't deployed until recently. Just becuase honda was the first to market it, doesnt mean they invented it. I'm not ignorant, you just need to stop looking deeper into my posts than what was ment to be.
