Lets settle the "M" issue once and for all...

adrean8j · Sep 15, 2003

Danke, nummer uno!!! [;)]

I knew someone out there could back me up on this.
All said and done the "M" designator does not mean "M" engine. The "M" and "#" (or specific word; "coupe") after are what make those particular cars unique. So having a M symbol is not posing but having a M3 or M5 symbol on a car not originally designated that is posing.......punkte!!!

junglestylz · Sep 15, 2003

Just for info, you can take everything out of the suspension on an E30 M3 and put it on a 318 except for the front shocks, and rear sway bar depending on the recieveing car.

Wadula · Sep 15, 2003

that would make the 318 worthy to carry a ///M. how about the engine? would that be possible without major changes and efforts?

adrean, [thumb]

xLibelle · Sep 15, 2003

uno is spanish, not german

Wadula · Sep 15, 2003

correct. i assumed it was on purpose....hm....

Marinakorp · Sep 16, 2003

adrean8j said:

adrean8j

SO... using your logic, if I were to put an M5 foot pedal in my Honda, I would then NOT be posing by placing a ///M on the rear of my car.... that makes absolutely no sense what so ever!

The ///M designates that a car came from a specific special production factory prepared car... the 3 or 5 designates what model the vehicle represents in the automotive line

ooo000HITMAN000ooo · Sep 16, 2003

It has to be a bmw TO HAVE THE BMW ///M

Wadula · Sep 16, 2003

Marinakorp said:

Sorry friend, but that is wrong. The ///M does not mean the car was produced by the M GmbH. There is a difference between ///M and ///M with number. furthermore the ///M (without number) does not mean "that a car came from a specific special production factory prepared car". It is just the sign that the car is equipped with stuff and that is done on the standard assembly line in the standard bmw shop.

The number makes the difference and that is fact.

concerning the honda example, no that would be posing as it is not a bmw. with bmw it is "legal" as it is their own behaviour. BMW itself does it. Don't you see it? My car has the M stuff all around, and that is the way i bought it as stock. if i put a ///M3 (see the number please) on my trunk, that would be posing.
putting an M badge on honda would be like putting a mercedes badge on the bimmer for having mercedes floor mats.

same is with mercedes, you can have a standard mercedes equipped with AMG stuff, but no AMG engine. in that case you are allowed to wear the AMG badge. but not the car badge C32 or E55. it is the same deal.

adrean8j · Sep 16, 2003

Marinakorp said:

Some people just dont have the brain power to be on these message boards......isnt it called BMWBOARD.COM???? Of course I am talking about BMW's What other type of cars would I be talking about....jeez[???1] . The ///M designates that the part is an official motorsport "PART", thus the ///M3 or 5 is an official motorsport car.....any other questions Marinakorp? Part of using logic is not assuming or going off on an ILLOGICAL tangent. Sorry but that statement irritated me a little bit. I still luv you guys!!!

Marinakorp · Sep 16, 2003

don't feel that that was an illogical tangent based upon the set of assumptions made

If the Car has M things on it... then you can badge the car as an M

So carrying this to the full and logical conclusion... (as I have taken a few logic courses in my life) then ANY car containing M parts can be considered M... I used the ridiculous example of the footpedals in a honda... but what if I were to place a e36 m3 motor in this same honda... would that not consider the car an ///M car?

The only cars that can be gussied up with the M badge (without the 1, 3, 5, 6 etc) designations are vehicles that came out of the Gmbh plant

Yes, BMW does have a history of attaching ///M badging to the cars... they usually are limited numbers and are there for a reason (indicating tuned at the GMBH plant) ...

For example
the e34 540i came out of the Gmbh plant, did not have the M5 motor, and was (basically) a 540i sport with an upgraded set of brakes... If I were to purchase a e34 and dress up the brakes with the same part number form the catalog, I could not legally represent this car as an M540, as these were limited numbers, etc... Yes, BMW does have a history of attaching ///M badging to the cars... they usually are limited numbers and are there for a reason (indicating tuned at the GMBH plant) ... placing the badge on the cars post production implies "want to be like" or "posing" as the real maccoy

MY 540iT contains MANY M parts from the factory... asside from the parts themselves containing the ///M logo (steering wheel, etc)... why did my car not come from the factory with the ///M540 on the rear? ANSWER: Because iT is not an M car and did not come off the GmbH production line... it came from the normal factory line with a few M parts, installed at the normal factory

Please feel free to debate this in a civilized manner... I do not care for the "mud slinging" battles... as they serve no purpose but to foster ignorance and intollerance

Some people just dont have the brain power to be on these message boards

Wadula · Sep 16, 2003

Wrong, my car is one of those special series containing lots of M stuff and it was produced on the assembly line in munich. that has nothing to do with the one of the M GmbH.

and back to the honda example. you are right saying that a honda with M3 engine will not be allowed wearing an ///M or ///M3 badge, as it is simply no bmw!!! there is no question, bo doubt and normally in this discussion the word honda or lexus or mercedes should not even appear.

maybe this is one point were the discussion has reached its end? i mean, everyone its own.

Marinakorp · Sep 16, 2003

Ok... SHOW me the build sheet where the ///M came from the factory as an option...

Most anyone can have the dealer install the ///M on the car prior to picking up the vehicle... (not implying that you did this) but I find it VERY difficult to believe that a NON ///M car could get the badge from the standard factory and not the GMBH... even the ///M540i in the previous examples was pulled from the production lines and was "finished" at the GMBH plant.

HONDA example:

It is also no ///M... If I were to graft a truck body (assuming of course that it is possible)directly onto a M5...would I be able to call it an M5?

My point is.. at what point does a non ///M vehicle become a ///M?

Wadula · Sep 16, 2003

last try, the ///M without number has nothing to do with production on an Motorsport GmbH assembly line, engineering or whatever. that is only the ///M with number.
Of course, the ///M (with or without number) is only applicable for BMW cars. sanity and reason should tell you that another brand even with M engine shall never wear an ///M badge. [rolleyes]

any bmw dealer can order the sport edition at the bmw plant. that plant, non motorsport gmbh of course as it is a non M3, will assemble the car with m parts. in thatcase the plant can badge it with the ///M badge. and exactly that is the point. the ///M badge (without number) is not limited for the use on ///M3's made on the motorsport GmbH lines.

the posts before already draw a precise picture of when a bmw can wear an ///M or a ///M3 badge.

Bryan330i · Sep 16, 2003

Just a question here. [:)]

I remember reading somewhere that BMW had started to use the M production plant to produce other non-M vehicles because of a slow down in M sales. They were doing this to even out production loads and make use of substantial fixed overhead costs. Does anyone know if this is true?

Wadula · Sep 16, 2003

I haven't heard about that, but it would make sense to support a prodcution line when production goes down. economically that makes sense.

Bryan330i · Sep 16, 2003

I just read the 2002 annual report and a couple CEO statements from prior years. It looks like they are going for a lot of cross over, like the M-3 production will be maintained fully with the 3 production, but all 3 and M-3 engines will be producted at a "engine" plant was basically what I out of it. Like everyone else, they are trying to max profit and streamline processes (getting cheap).

Wadula · Sep 16, 2003

getting cheap, does that mean you fear bmw will reduce quality or just reduce production costs?

Bryan330i · Sep 16, 2003

I hope quality does not suffer. The company seems to be changing and I do question if it is for the better. Nothing wrong with cutting down on some expenses and making better use of assets. In the past some companies go too far and experience a decline in quality, it is like some managers push to see how little they can get by with in production to meet minimun standards of acceptable quality. I hope that is not the case here.

Wadula · Sep 16, 2003

i dont' think so. the last development showed that bmw is still aiming at quality and not only commercial values. the mill they built in germany for the 3 series production could have been realized in the earstern parts of europe as well, for less money of course. the german factor might be a guarantee for more quality, at least more than production somewhere else.

furthermore bmw is aiming at big time increases in sales which brings the definite need to rise production capacities in existing mills, for example in the US. if the existing ///M line can play a part in that game we should be fine. i hope though

adrean8j · Sep 19, 2003

I still dont think that BMW´s with the M symbol are "posing" if they have the proper upgrades. Just like having a AC Schnitzer symbol but not having a "S5". Trust me it is possible because my girlfriends grandfather has on(its on my homepage). Bottom line M without number motorsport upgrades, M with number=motorsport car.......punkte!!!!

Lets settle the "M" issue once and for all...

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